Legislature(1995 - 1996)
03/10/1995 09:31 AM Senate HES
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SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE
March 10, 1995
9:31 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Lyda Green, Chairman
Senator Loren Leman, Vice-Chairman
Senator Mike Miller
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Johnny Ellis
Senator Judy Salo
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 91
"An Act creating the crime of criminal transmission of human
immunodeficiency virus (HIV)."
Presentation by the Division of Public Assistance.
SHES - 3/10/95
SB 98 (PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY ACT OF 1995) was scheduled, but not
heard this date.
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
SB 91 - See Health, Education & Social Services minutes dated
3/8/95.
SB 98 - See Health, Education & Social Services minutes dated
3/8/95.
WITNESS REGISTER
Jim Nordlund, Director
Division of Public Assistance (DPA)
Department of Health & Social Services (DHSS)
P.O. Box 110640
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0640
POSITION STATEMENT: Reviewed the briefing document on Public
Assistance Programs.
Curt Lomas, Welfare Reform Program
Division of Public Assistance, DHSS
P.O. Box 110640
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0640
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered additional information about the Adult
Public Assistance Program.
Randy Moore, Administrative Officer
Division of Public Assistance, DHSS
P.O. Box 110640
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0640
POSITION STATEMENT: Discussed the Old Age Assistance Program.
Jim Dalman, Program Officer
Food Stamp Claims Unit
Division of Public Assistance, DHSS
400 W. Willoughby, Suite 302
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1731
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information about the Food Stamp
Program, the Energy Assistance Program, and
the Fraud Control Unit.
Val Horner, JOBS Program Officer
Division of Public Assistance, DHSS
P.O. Box 110640
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0640
POSITION STATEMENT: Reviewed the Job Opportunities and Basic
Skills Program.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 95-13, SIDE A
SHES - 3/13/95
SB 91 CRIMINAL TRANSMISSION OF HIV
Number 003
CHAIRMAN GREEN called the Senate Health, Education and Social
Services (HESS) Committee to order at 9:31 a.m. and introduced
SB 91 as the first order of business before the committee.
SENATOR MILLER moved that the committee adopt the CS, Luckhaupt
3/9/95 version, in lieu of the original bill.
CHAIRMAN GREEN noted that the CS made the change talked about in
committee on Wednesday.
SENATOR MILLER moved that the CS SB 91(HES) be moved out of
committee with individual recommendations. Hearing no objection,
it was so ordered.
Number 026
CHAIRMAN GREEN informed everyone that the presentation by the
Division of Public Assistance would be continued at this time.
JIM NORDLUND, Director of the Division of Public Assistance,
introduced the various DPA personnel present at the meeting. He
began his presentation on page 14 of the briefing document which
discussed the Adult Public Assistance (APA) program. APA is a
supplement to the Federal Supplemental Security Income (SSI)
program. SSI helps elderly, blind, and disabled adults. He
specified that SSI payments are from the federal government and
given directly to the client. APA then fills the remaining need to
the point of the needs standard.
CHAIRMAN GREEN inquired as to how the permanently disabled
requirement would be a classification. CURT LOMAS, Welfare Reform
Program for DPA, said that the process is complex. The definition
of permanently disabled is established federally and based on the
capacity to work. Such factors as medical conditions,
psychological conditions, work history, age, and other determinants
are reviewed in order to be classified as permanently disabled.
The Department of Education within the Division of Vocational
Rehabilitation make these disability determinations. Mr. Lomas
commented that the specifics would vary in relation to the illness.
The process to make the determination takes 60-90 days. Mr. Lomas
pointed out that a number of the disability applicants do not
initially qualify and more than half of those who appeal their
determination are eventually found to be eligible.
CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if the problem was the specification of
permanent. CURT LOMAS explained that once disability is
established due to a medical condition, the individual's prospect
for employment would be the basis for the determination. The
classification is tied to the individual's ability to earn a set
amount. Mr. Lomas noted that there are periodic reviews once an
individual is found to be disabled in order to review eligibility
over time. Assistance would be terminated if the individual's
capacity to earn increased over the minimum level.
Number 126
JIM NORDLUND continued on page 14 by pointing out the chart in the
middle of the page. He noted that the AFDC caseload has almost
leveled out, but that has not been the case with APA. The most
significant factor regarding the APA population would be the state
population. Page 15 reviews the eligibility criteria for APA. The
need and maximum payment standards are located on page 16. The
state pays up to the amount of the needs standard. The amount of
the payment has remained the same. The graphs on page 17
illustrated a regular rise in caseloads and expenditures from the
fiscal years of 1990 to 1996 which seems to reflect the overall
growth in the population.
RANDY MOORE, Administrative Officer for DPA, directed the committee
to page 14 which specified that 19.3 percent of those persons 65
and older received Old Age Assistance (OAA) in the fiscal year 1980
as compared to 14.2 percent in the fiscal year 1994. He believed
that the growth of the APA population had exceeded the growth rate
of Alaska's population.
Number 213
JIM NORDLUND continued his briefing with page 18 which presents the
graph information from page 17 in a different manner. Page 18 also
points out the total savings resulting from the passage of HB 67.
The current fiscal year, 1995, will save $3,192.2 million. Page 19
breaks down the APA cases according to the district area, race and
category. He commented that this breakdown is similar to that of
AFDC.
CHAIRMAN GREEN inquired as to what interim assistance referred.
JIM NORDLUND explained that interim assistance payments are in lieu
of federal SSI payments.
JIM NORDLUND moved on to the Food Stamp program on page 20. The
Food Stamp program are funded 100 percent by the federal
government. He pointed out that the graph of the overall budget of
DPA on page 2 includes the Food Stamp program. The state and
federal government share the administrative costs 50/50 which
equals approximately $7 million for Alaska. He noted that the
amount of food stamps an individual receives is based in part on
their location; there is rural 1, rural 2, and an urban rate. This
increases the complexity of the administration of the Food Stamp
program.
JIM DALMAN, Program Officer for the Food Stamp Claims Unit, noted
that Alaska has specific language in the Food Stamp Act to cover
the three food stamp rates.
SENATOR LEMAN asked if there was a list which specified which
communities receive which rating. JIM DALMAN said that he would
forward that information to the senator.
Number 277
JIM NORDLUND directed the committee to pages 21 and 22 which review
the eligibility criteria for food stamps.
JIM DALMAN explained that all food stamp applicants must meet the
resource and income standards. The first test an applicant must
pass would be a gross income test. If the applicant passes, then
a set of deductions are applied. The next test would be the net
income test which if they pass then the applicant's resources are
reviewed.
CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if waivers were available. JIM DALMAN stated
that waivers would be available to some degree; there would be more
flexibility than with the AFDC program. The Food Stamp program has
more specific rules encompassed within the Food Stamp Act. He
noted that waivers can be requested if things are not specified in
the act.
JIM NORDLUND directed the committee to page 23 which discusses the
standards and maximum allotments for food stamps. Page 24 presents
graphs which illustrate the case load and benefit growth from the
fiscal years 1990 to 1996.
CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if the administrative costs remain constant.
JIM DALMAN said that administrative costs remain fairly constant,
but those costs would reflect increased salaries, new components,
and various other aspects affecting administrative costs.
JIM NORDLUND asked if Alaska's share of the administrative costs
was driven by a formula. JIM DALMAN replied that in part, that
would be correct. Most of the federal programs are based on a time
study, the amount of time workers spend on the various programs as
well as other incidental costs. Mr. Dalman clarified that most of
the workers perform multiple program eligibility.
JIM NORDLUND continued the briefing with page 25 which contains
graphs illustrating the food stamp cases by district area, race,
and category. He began the portion of the packet regarding the Job
Opportunities and Basic Skills (JOBS) program on page 26. The
program was mandated by the federal government in the passage of
the Family Support Act of 1988. The focus of the JOBS program is
to encourage AFDC recipients into work related activities and
employment. The program is proving to be effective in reducing
caseload. He directed the committee to the graph at the bottom of
page 28 which illustrates that the number of AFDC recipients
finding work is increasing. He mentioned that the JOBS program
would be facing a $500,000 cut in federal funding. This program is
successful and an investment in the long-term.
Number 376
VAL HORNER, JOBS Program Officer for DPA, explained that the
program began as a career oriented program with long-term education
and employment goals. She pointed out that the emphasis on long-
term education had changed. The graph on page 27 regarding JOBS
participants and the graph on page 28 regarding JOBS parents
finding work both illuminate that change in philosophy. The JOBS
program now focuses on helping clients become job ready as well as
helping those who are job ready to become active and trained in the
skills necessary for job searching. Through vocational counseling
and the identification of a client's skill, realistic employment
goals are produced which encourage entry level employment and
gaining experience. Participation leading toward employment is
required.
Ms. Horner specified that the JOBS program relies on multiple
agencies such as JTPA and the Department of Labor in order to
operate the program. The program focuses on employment
opportunities available in the client's community. She pointed out
that currently the clients consisted of a significant amount of
two-parent families rather than the single family of the past. She
explained the process in which the JOBS program obtains its
clients. The program serves six areas and targets the non-Native
population; the Native population is served by a Native JOBS
program which receives federal funding. In conclusion, Ms. Horner
emphasized that the JOBS program focuses on moving clients towards
employment by increasing educational levels, vocational training,
and overcoming family issues which are barriers to employment.
Number 436
CHAIRMAN GREEN inquired as to the process of receiving the various
services from the different agencies; would the client be referred
to different offices in different buildings. VAL HORNER said that
going to different offices could happen, but that would depend upon
the needs of the client. In Ketchikan, all the offices are located
in the same building.
CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if while a client was in the JOBS program
would the client receive full benefits in order to maintain a basic
lifestyle. VAL HORNER said that a client would receive an AFDC
check while in the JOBS program. When a client begins paid
employment the amount of the AFDC would be decreased in relation to
the client's income. CHAIRMAN GREEN clarified that this would be
a form of transition. VAL HORNER noted that the program provides
supportive services such as child care, transportation assistance
as well as paying for some professional licensing fees and work
clothing. These services are only provided when a client works
toward employment.
CHAIRMAN GREEN inquired as to the percentage of federal support
which would be withdrawn. JIM NORDLUND said that nationwide
federal support would be reduced from $1.3 billion to $1 billion.
VAL HORNER emphasized that the federal reduction is a scheduled
reduction.
SENATOR LEMAN asked if there was information regarding the cost of
the program based on the number of jobs created. VAL HORNER said
that there is such information. In Alaska, the development of a
work site costs approximately $1,200. Child care costs, the most
significant barrier to employment, increase the cost of the
program. Ms. Horner stated that the program is worthwhile and does
pay for itself. In response to Chairman Green, Ms. Horner agreed
to forward the committee a list of the specific ways in which
clients receive assistance.
SENATOR LEMAN pointed out that a review of the cost per job could
prove valuable in the delivery of the service. Another aspect of
concern regarding the cost per job would be the length of time a
client remains in the job market for the job that was created. He
indicated that both of those aspects could illuminate the
effectiveness of the program.
Number 509
VAL HORNER noted that since the JOBS program is fairly new there is
not enough history available to do accurate comparisons. She
directed the committee to the chart discussing welfare savings on
page 28. Employers' reports from the Department of Labor allows
the JOBS program to accurately compare clients and their ongoing
employment activities. She felt that the most important aspect of
that comparison would be that the client had remained employed,
whether or not the client remained in the same job was not as
important.
Ms. Horner emphasized that the effectiveness of the JOBS program
goes further than dollar measurements. The program changes the
lives of these people and their children, they are given dignity.
SENATOR LEMAN stated that needy people can be helped and changed if
they are given more dignity by taking care of their needs
personally rather than through corporate government assistance
programs. He agreed with the concept of the program, however, he
was not as convinced of the effectiveness of the program.
VAL HORNER acknowledged Senator Leman's concerns, but the
significant growth in 1994 supported her belief in the program.
She noted that she had researched employment and training programs
and their effectiveness. States with programs that do not offer
any education result in clients who may gain employment quickly,
but they do not retain their employment. The Riverside project in
California illustrates that long-term college education and short-
term vocational training basically net the same results. She
explained that for Alaska, short-term education with a focus on
employment would be the most cost effective approach. The program
is going in that direction.
Ms. Horner noted that the JOBS program provides a work fair program
which mandates that a two-parent family participate in community
service. The program also requires that clients combine
activities. Each individual participates up to 40 hours a week.
She explained that once a client is in the program, the client
would be required to take public service employment if that client
has remained unemployed under the program for two to four days. If
the client does not participate, the family loses their AFDC
benefits.
Number 575
CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if there was an effort to avoid duplication.
VAL HORNER said yes, everyone works hard to avoid duplication.
JIM NORDLUND recognized the debate between the effectiveness of
long-term versus short-term training. He addressed Senator Leman's
concern by pointing out that training a client toward a four year
degree, the client would seem less likely to return to welfare
because they would be moving into a better job. He felt that the
emphasis in Alaska should be employing people.
TAPE 95-13, SIDE B
Number 590
CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if the clients of the JOBS program had been
directed into the program or had they asked to participate in the
program. VAL HORNER said that both scenarios occur. Ms. Horner
agreed with Chairman Green that the JOBS program would not
necessarily be voluntary. Ms. Horner also concurred with Chairman
Green that the JOBS program can be a requirement which if not
fulfilled would lead to the loss of benefits to the client. There
are a lot of factors which would determine whether the client would
have the JOBS program as an option or a requirement.
Ms. Horner mentioned that one of the serious problems was the
education level of the clients. Most clients are at a six grade
level. Approximately 40 percent of the clients do not have a
diploma or GED. Ms. Horner said that their goal was to educate
these people up to at least the ninth grade level. Participation
in the adult basic education program is required. She pointed out
that through the testing for basic literacy - which everyone must
take, even those who were high school graduates - they have found
that the majority of clients have an education below the eighth
grade level.
SENATOR LEMAN reiterated Ms. Horner's statement that these low
education levels also include individuals with high school
diplomas. VAL HORNER specified that nearly 30 percent of the
clients have a high school education and 40 percent do not have a
high school education. Ms. Horner said that the problem with
education should be attacked in the schools as well; by the time
these individuals reach the JOBS program, it is almost too late.
Number 554
SENATOR LEMAN said that it was obvious that there is not enough
money being spent on education if 30 percent of the division's
clients cannot read well. VAL HORNER supported school to work.
CHAIRMAN GREEN requested more information regarding the statistics
Ms. Horner mentioned about the educational status of their clients.
VAL HORNER mentioned that the Department of Education and the
Department of Labor are major partners in the JOBS program.
CHAIRMAN GREEN inquired as to the percentage of AFDC clients that
participate in the JOBS program. JIM NORDLUND said that it was
approximately 30 percent. Page 27 could be used to compare the
JOBS caseload versus the overall AFDC caseload which works out to
be approximately 15 percent.
CURT LOMAS pointed out that the Native JOBS programs serve numerous
persons who are not reflected in these statistics. VAL HORNER
noted that the Native JOBS programs are accountable to their
federal agency.
VAL HORNER commented on the growth the JOBS program has felt.
There have been various intensive audits of the program within the
last nine months. She pointed out that adding clients to the
caseload does not guarantee employment because time is needed in
order to work with the clients to achieve employment. There would
be a point at which the staff would be maxed out and the
effectiveness in dealing with their clients will decrease
dramatically. She informed the committee that nationally, the
effective caseload size is about 85 and 90. They are reaching the
maximum capacity where effectiveness would be lost and placement
would become a paper shuffle.
JIM NORDLUND noted that the cap would be reached quickly with the
$500,000 federal cut. This is why the division has a budget
request for $500,000 in order to maintain the program at the
current level. VAL HORNER reiterated that they were rapidly
reaching the maximum capacity to effectively place people in
employment with the current number of staff.
CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if the staff was increased, could the number
of clients be increased. VAL HORNER said yes.
Number 485
JIM NORDLUND reviewed pages 27 and 28. He continued his briefing
with the Energy Assistance Program (EAP) which begins on page 29.
The EAP is 100 percent federally funded program which is utilized
mainly in the winter months. Some staff are laid off in the summer
months.
JIM DALMAN explained that EAP gives a one time grant per year. EAP
serves the working poor who may not be served under other programs.
He informed the committee that last year 4,700 AFDC households were
involved in EAP of the 14,000 clients that were served. There are
tribal grantees that receive direct federal funding. He said that
all of the payments made by EAP are mainly vendor payments. He
pointed out that EAP has had a continuous decline in funding due to
its block grant situation. EAP faces increased caseloads while
benefits and federal funding decrease.
CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if there was any cost to the state for this
program. JIM DALMAN restated that EAP is 100 percent federally
funded. SENATOR LEMAN asserted that those federal funds come from
somewhere. JIM DALMAN agreed, but pointed out that these funds do
not come from the general fund.
JIM NORDLUND directed the committee to page 30 which discusses the
General Relief Assistance (GRA) program. The needs standard for
this program is very low; GRA serves as a last resort. Half of the
budget for this program is applied to burials for indigent persons.
CURT LOMAS pointed out that the remaining 50 percent of this
program's budget is used for rental assistance for the homeless or
those who are close to eviction. The maximum benefit for GRA is
$120 per month per person. GRA is not a long-term program, a
person much apply each month the assistance is needed.
Number 414
JIM NORDLUND noted that the remainder of the packet addressed the
Fraud Unit of DPA which is under the charge of Jim Dalman.
JIM DALMAN pointed out that 40 percent of the Fraud Control Unit
Staff had to be laid off last year which leaves the unit short-
handed. He noted that there was an increment proposal in order to
restore four investigator positions lost to federal funding cuts
last year. He reviewed the three main functions of the Fraud
Control Unit: investigations, administrative disqualification
hearings, and claims processing and collection. He reported that
the two investigator sub-unit of the early fraud detection
investigations, located only in Anchorage, avoided costs in excess
of $2 million. The cost avoidance for the fiscal year 1994 was
$3.6 million.
Fraud deterrence is important in the approach to accountability
with these programs. Mr. Dalman informed the committee that the
Fraud Unit was reorganized a few years ago which resulted in
improvements in process, productivity and cost savings. Even with
the federal cuts of last year, the unit streamlined and
productivity was not effected.
SENATOR LEMAN inquired as to the possibility of contracting some of
that work.
Number 347
JIM DALMAN recognized that some states have contracted such work
with mixed success. The reorganization of the unit resulted in the
reclassification of investigators down to a lower pay range, and
recruited many experienced eligibility technicians and persons with
investigative backgrounds. These people have been very productive
with costs that are not extreme. He informed the committee that
the budget increment to add four investigator positions would be
approximately $240,000. Knowing this business from the inside out
is a definite advantage.
Mr. Dalman felt that the current operation was very efficient. The
past reorganization and the advent of the disqualification hearings
provides a more streamlined approach. Fewer cases are taken to
prosecution which cuts a lot of the costs. He noted the broad
support for the Fraud Unit. Contracting probably would not result
in a much more cost efficient system. The current positions are
making money. Currently, the unit is short-handed and faces a
backlog which lead to the need for additional positions. He
emphasized that fraud is happening, but that it is not an epidemic.
JIM NORDLUND pointed out that the fraud investigators are recruited
from the eligibility technicians which are trained from six months
to a year. Contractors would not have this background. Mr.
Nordlund was not convinced that contracting would result in a
better productivity. JIM DALMAN reiterated that the past
reorganization resulted in greater productivity at a decreased
cost.
SENATOR LEMAN referred to the recent spy case when he stated that
he hoped that the fraud unit could achieve better and quicker
results than the CIA did with that case. JIM DALMAN noted that
each office does home visits which serve to recognize red flags
such as certain lifestyles which would indicate fraud.
Number 256
CHAIRMAN GREEN felt that an investigator's effectiveness must
increase when they actually live in the community in which they
serve. Currently all the investigators are in Anchorage. She
suggested that even part-time investigators would be more effective
if they lived in the community they served. JIM DALMAN explained
that there are referrals from each office in the community.
JIM NORDLUND stated that he had an administrative organization
break down by region. The largest job classification of DPA would
be the eligibility technicians who are located in the offices of
the five regions. He reviewed the various offices and their
responsibilities.
There being no further business before the committee, the meeting
adjourned at 10:50 a.m.
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